With a break like this with plenty of surface area, I would just glue it without any additional supports. My glue of choice is hot hide glue, but there will be lots of opinions on that and many option…
I think that's a good move. One thing I might do to kick things of is to hit the area with some ultra thin master glue so it wicks under the area and prevents more chipping from potentially delaminate…
Hi guys, I finally managed to sort the problem out. Seens like was a simple issue that I cant see in that moment. I took the whole bridge apart and did a complete setup from scratch. I read somewhere…
This is precisely why Leo Fender developed the insideless guitar. A compromised neck block is super hard to come back from and when I see something like this, it leads me to believe that it's the tip…
Chris, can I add this for the council of elders show ? Also, we are going to have @member on pretty soon to talk about a job about this dramastic. Here's a link to the live show co…
I am a newer guitar tech and after dozens of repairs this particular Simon & Patrick Luthier Cedar top SP6 acoustic dreadnought from the 90-ies with a bolt-on maple neck has been an incredible challenge.
It came with a maxed out and stuck truss rod with a considerable up bow in the neck, extremely low saddle with barely any string break angle, so it needed a neck reset. Later on I figured out that it also has a pretty drastic neck twist with treble side dip at headstock and bass side raised at headstock, and the opposite situation at neck/body joint.
I managed to free up the truss rod without breaking it, did a neck reset and then levelled the frets using the understring StewMac FretBar. However the result was much string buzz starting pretty much from fretting at 2-03 fret and up.
As a result, I ended up pulling the frets and levelling the fretboard using a 24" stewmac sanding beam. Upon which I did a full refret using EVO gold fretwire with fish glue, my arbor press and clamping frets overnight.
before levelling the new frets, I ordered and received the Elerwine Neck Jog from StewMac. I set the guitar up in the jig per manual and the YouTube, and did the fret levelling job.
However, I am now still stuck with a similar buzz especially within 2-5 frets on all strings except B and High E. A that's at 6/64 and 5/64 action with 0.007" relief!
I would honestly welcome any constructive criticism, ideas and diagnoses of my errors and mistakes, since this has long become a money losing operation and the client is quite upset with the delay! Thanks, everyone, I appreciate the opportunity to join this community!
I don't use a neck jig, so I'm hesitant speak to that process. It sounds like you used the neck jig to mimic string tension and then fully leveled in that position, is that correct? That doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I might add/mimic tension to correct something approaching the neck joint, but I would fully expect leveling all the frets while under tension to cause buzzing issues or require higher action/more relief than I like. But like I said, I don't know how people normally use the neck jig so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Here's what I would check
As Ian mentioned above, check how the truss rod is affecting the neck. Check it along the neck and on each side, and get a good idea of how it's acting in 3 dimensions along its full length. I've worked on a guitar that had the truss rod installed crooked which caused all kinds of weirdness at different tensions
This neck might not be responding to string tension or truss tension normally due to uneven density in the wood. There may be a mismatch between the plane of the top of the frets and the plane of the fretboard/neck. The fretboard leveling or fret leveling (or both) could have been done with the neck in a less-than-ideal position, causing uneven/unexpected/insufficient response to tension. The fretting could've introduced areas of compression or weakness.
If I understand your description properly, here's how I would approach it. Remove string tension and set the truss rod so the fretboard (not frets) is level. Tighten and loosen the truss rod while checking how it's affecting the neck. Get to know it a bit, you may find something you can fix, you may find something that's not worth fixing on this guitar (like the truss causes twist). Check to make sure there's no humps or bumps or dips or curves or anything in the fretboard that don't look right. If there is, take the frets out and start again. Once the fretboard is level, get the frets level without adding/mimicking tension. I expect that would solve the buzzing in first position. Then if you're getting buzzing further up the neck you can put it in the neck jig and address the upper frets, but don't change the lower or middle frets except to blend them into the upper frets you're filling.
I hope that's helpful. If anyone who uses a neck jig can correct errors in my understanding it would be appreciated.
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Did you level the frets with the fingerboard perfectly flat without strings?
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No sir, I put the guitar in the neck jig and simulated the string tension before levelling the frets.
Now, I was unable to perfectly replicate the zeros on both dials - once both dials were at zero, the neck would no longer be perfectly flat when checked with a straight edge. I ended up levelling at the goal near the 1st fret at zero and the other dial 0.005" off from zero....
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Frustrating! One thing I might check, with the instrument tuned and in playing position, is to place a straight edge between the 2 buzziest strings and profile the fret heights with feeler gauges to make sure none of the 1 - 5 fret heights are a few 0.001’s low compared to midneck, especially if you set the relief on the FB rather than the frets. In my hands the neck jig is a great help but not foolproof.
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Thank you! Visually when I check with a straight edge with the straight neck I can see no light leaks on top of those frets. when I was setting up the guitar in the neck jog I used the top of the frets to set the neck straight, not the fretboard.
One theory that keeps stuck in my head is whether I could have levelled the frets at an incline towards the body joint, if that's even possible? If that were the case, it would explain the buzzing with low neck relief. However I took very much care not to put any pressure on the sanding beam and let its own weight do the work... it is frustrating indeed!
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↪ Private memberYou might check again with a 0.0015” 0.002” feeler gauge? I’m just puzzled by the fact that a small change in relief makes such a change in buzz. I’ve found that it’s possible to raise the FB a little too high when you apply upward force on the headstock with the jig. Then the first few frets will be tapered off slightly, without being easily detectable with the rocker.
Can you send a short video of the buzzing to [email withheld] ? Could you also detail your action measurements ?
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Certainly, will send a video once I get to my home shop!
Not sure re what to provide in terms of action measurement details - I measured action with the guitar still in the neck jig using stewmac action gauge, in playing position. Neck relief was measured at the 5th fret using a dial gauge tool, not feeler gauges.
↪ Private memberAre those measurements depressing at the first fret or with the strings open ? What kind of attack are you using on the strings ? What is the radius of the fingerboard and is your saddle matching that radius. Are your frets level with the rocker ? Are they completely seated and free of wiggle. Did you tap the back of the neck to make sure the truss rod isn't rattling in the truss rod cavity ?
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↪ Ian DavlinAh thank you - I understand the question - measurements taken with open strings, I was using medium and higher attack to check if strings would buzz; the radius of the fingerboard and of the saddle is 16". the frets are level with the rocker except the fallaway starting from the body joint, the frets are all seated and glued in with fish glue. I did not tap the back of the neck though - will check, however the buzz seems to be coming from the strings when plucked between 1 to about 5-6 frets, then the buzz stops, likely due to the fallaway playing a role at string half-length. Also when I set relief at 0.009 or more, the buzz stops, then action at 12th fret increases to about 6,5/64 and 5.5/64.
↪ Private memberWe set action at Gruhn's to those measurements with the first fret depressed. It's a slightly taller action. What is the scale length on the guitar ? If it's short scale, you might bring the string gauge up a micro fudge.
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↪ Ian DavlinI will check the action specs with a capo at the 1st fret and report back. The scale length if I can remember is 24.9". I was aiming for 5/64 and 4/64 with 0.006" relief which I like on my personal guitars, however I am not a heavy-handed player..
I'll take a look at the video if you send it, but I think you are potentially describing a psychological issue. If you have at your disposal other instruments with the same scale, action, radius and string gauge, grab them and us the same technique you are applying to this guitar and compare and contrast. If it winds up that those guitars have remarkably less buzz, then it's probably slightly uneven frets or a truss rod rattle, or maybe electronics vibration. There is a physical limit to buzz on frets.
Getting hypercritical early on in a tech career especially as the date of handing it back to the customer is on the horizon, is a common thing. Double check what you're hearing against other guitars.
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↪ Ian Davlinthank you - I have compared it to the same brand guitar with the same scale length and 16" fretboard radius, on which i did a neck reset and fret leveling before, it has 5,5/64 and 4,5/64 at 12th fret and 0.006" relief. there is significantly less buzz on it unless played hard. Hence the reason to start doubting my repair skills!
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Video sent via email with maildrop. I hope it plays!
You may or may not notice an understring levelling around the body joint - out of being frustrated I levelled the area below the low E, A and D strings. Did not do much in terms of fixing the issue.
I am now leaning towards setting relief to a value that removes buzzing and calling it a day.
↪ Private memberI sent you a reply looking for another video. One more question. How is it taking the relief ? Is it taking it all in the first 3 frets or is it taking it in a nice curve down to the 9th fret. Are you checking both bass side and treble side ?