With a break like this with plenty of surface area, I would just glue it without any additional supports. My glue of choice is hot hide glue, but there will be lots of opinions on that and many option…
I think that's a good move. One thing I might do to kick things of is to hit the area with some ultra thin master glue so it wicks under the area and prevents more chipping from potentially delaminate…
Hi guys, I finally managed to sort the problem out. Seens like was a simple issue that I cant see in that moment. I took the whole bridge apart and did a complete setup from scratch. I read somewhere…
This is precisely why Leo Fender developed the insideless guitar. A compromised neck block is super hard to come back from and when I see something like this, it leads me to believe that it's the tip…
Chris, can I add this for the council of elders show ? Also, we are going to have @member on pretty soon to talk about a job about this dramastic. Here's a link to the live show co…
I am switching from NC lacquer to EM6000. I also want to switch from black WB filler to blackened epoxy grain fill.
My question relates to keeping the color in the pores and off the surface wood, and whether to vinyl seal before and/or after epoxy fill, I already know how to tint epoxy black.
Could black grain fill style be accomplished with black epoxy as the grain filler and would a vinyl sealer be used at all, or just use EM6000 for sealing under the epoxy fill (seal/ fill/ seal/ )?
The goal here is keeping the color in the pores and off the surface wood.
My current lacquer grain fill process is: (sealer/ black filler/ sealer) under NCL top coat.
I will, of course, be testing whatever process I land on, off-the guitar, but want to get an idea of what is best practice (if there is one) for using black epoxy as a grain filler, especially on mahogany.
Hi Karl - Wondering - where does your finishing schedule stand now?
I have a build nearing completion - mahogany body and neck. I too will be finishing with EM6000 and am looking for a compatible pore filler (possibly tinted PTec 8400) under the water-based finish. Plus, I want those nice purfling lines and maple binding well sealed.
15 "double coats" consisting of a mist coat, wait 5 minutes then wet coat. That method eliminated sagging and was recommended by Jeff at Target. I'm flat sanding every 3 or 4 coats.
DROP FILLS:
Before I start with finish, I drop fill any gaps or big grain (like a mosaic rosette) with SilverTip epoxy mixed with West Systems colloidal Silica, pushing the mixture into the gap.
At about coat #10, I do drop fills with EM6000 mixed with West Systems colloidal Silica. I have had great success and one-and-done drop fills using the West Systems colloidal Silica.
Wishing You Great Results,
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Many thanks!
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↪ Private memberJust remembered - what are you doing for the guitar top?
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↪ Private memberI "seal" the top with Zinnzer Dewaxed Shellac from rattle can, or mixed fresh (1 lb cut, dewaxed, several applications) early, before even routing rosette, and before routing binding/ perfling ledges, then finish sand most of it off, more-or-less, before spraying EM6000. Same schedule; mist coat, or two, then wet coat. I spray 1/2 the number of coats on the top. I don't think I've ever sealed a top before WB lacquer (except the DEWAXED shellac). When I used NC lacquer, I sealed with vinyl sealer first, per the mfg. recommendations.
You know that CA stains bare spruce? If you use any CA on spruce, you have to seal it first- I use DEWAXED shellac- like over the rosette/ channels aftef finish, if I drop fill any small gaps. I seal before CA or epoxy drop fills- ALWAYS dewaxed shellac. SHellac has a pretty short shelf life too, whether a can, an aerosol or mixed fresh. A year is usually the max, but it can be longer- test on glass or wood first if using shellac. And learn to decode the date codes, both glue AND shellac and only buy the freshest. Pass on old product.
My last titebond buy, from HomeD, the TiteBond in front was over a year old. The box behind had a very recent date code- only a month earlier....
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↪ Private memberKarl - Funny you should mention it… my shellac order is out for delivery today. And thanks for the finishing schedule. In this most recent build, I find myself developing strategies that will avoid staining of the lighter woods. This was a problem in my last build where all of the purfling took on a grey cast.
For the most part I think CA is great, but it has its issues. I’m almost ready to do the deep dive into HHG. But I’m not sure that my wife wants to see HHG in the refrigerator, however. (“Honey, it’s actually just ‘Jell-O’ !”)
In this build, I am strategizing the timing of glue-ups very carefully, so that there will be less of a chance that CA and filler, etc. will ever come close to the top and the neck. I’m sure that there will still be a few ‘clams’. Thankfully, we’ve got a beautiful art supply store down the street and I’m sure I can find some, uh… “corrective pigments” there.
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↪ Private memberTHis is one of the best Hide Glue tutorials I've ever seen. The masking tape method at the end is worth it's weight in GOLD. I use this all the time, so many, many applications. The beauty is, you can peel the bottom layer of "dirty" tape off and reuse the stack. The tape blocks are not easy to cut (I use a utility knife) so I save them in a small poly zip bag.
Black grain filler on mahogany, with Silver Tip Epoxy Grain Filler and EM6000 Top Coat:
What worked best, and what I went with:
1. Sliver Tip grain fill over bare wood.
2. Black StewMac water based grain filler; 2x
3. Final seal with another coat of Silver Tip Epoxy
4. Scuff sand 320 and topcoat with EM6000.
With all the methods, the black color in the grain filler did not bleed, which was a main part of the test panels. I do not like how much the EM1000 sealer raised the grain. Perhaps there is a work around but this case is closed, for now,
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I have been using water based filler over sealer: sealer/ black filler/ sealer/ lacquer. I may just give that a test, (but with WB lacquer) but I would love to seal my purfling lines with epoxy. My last build was a nightmare with tiny "invisible" gaps that I couldn't see until lacquer. I could barely see them afterward with a visor + loop. I would like to seal those almost invisible gaps before top coating (I know gaps shouldn't be there in the first place, just coming clean......).
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The EM-6000 WB topcoat and EM1000 sealer finally arrived; let the testing begin....
I've made a number of test panels for black grain filler under EM-6000 top coat and over Silver Tip Epoxy grain filler (including Michael Bashkin's suggestion). I am going to update this thread with the results as the panels are completed. Materials are listed in the order applied.
The black filler, when done properly, accentuates the natural effect of dark shadow in the bottom of the grain, so there must be grain deep enough to accept the black filler, while the surface wood must be sealed such that dye from black filler will not discolor it. I had a killer method for nitro, but I'm moving away from nitro, hence the method testing.
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Panel #1 A and B (rejected; process not recommended) Honduran Mahogany:
1/2 the panel was grain raised with water then 320 sanded, the other half was not (A and B)
EMTECH EM1000 WB Universal Sanding Sealer
Silver Tip Grain Fill
Light scuff with red Scotch Bright
Rockler Wunderfill water-based Black Grain Filler
Final level sand with 320 on hard block
No top coat (yet)
RESULTS: The water-based sealer raised the grain, on both A side and B side, surprising given B side was grain raised. After the final "level sand" the surface was lumpy looking and uneven. A more rigorous flat sanding removed the black filler, down to a flat surface without grain.
Flat sanding the EM1000 sealer before epoxy would have likely sanded through the sealer due to the raised grain, I would rather not chase raised grain, so I reject this process. Another panel (#4) will have epoxy base with black filler directly over epoxy, then sealer. The #4 test case is drying and will be evaluated later.
Panel 1 might have been acceptable with 2 coats of sanding sealer with a flat sand in between but would have likely filled the grain to the point that the black grain filler was moot- that is, there would be insufficient grain depth to hold the black filler. The sanding sealer appears to fill grain very well, albeit it does raise the grain (damm it).
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Hi: I think there is a risk using vinyl sealer under tinted epoxy. Some of the solvents in epoxy might eat into the sealer coat and expose the raw wood to the colored epoxy. I would seal with one light clear epoxy and after it cures use tinted epoxy on top of that. Just something to try.
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Thanks Michael. I just watched your Epoxy Pore Filling demo today, what timing...
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I have a feeling that you might want to use something other than epoxy to do the black grain fill. Ideally, if you put it on raw wood, you'd want to sand it back so that only the black is left in the grain. But it seems risky on raw wood. I think sealing the wood first is a good way to go, even if it all gets sanded off again when you're leveling the epoxy. I was also thinking you could potentially even use the Emtech Black 6600 as your pore filler. That stuff is thick and you could wipe it on and off, or squeegee, then scuff sand to remove excess. You'd have to experiment with dry time of course.